! $ Commission $ ! request

[barbecueskappy]

This is for game design research.
I'm looking for somebody that would be willing to build a slightly customized version of zsnes for me; I'm willing to pay for your time. It's a small edit, I estimate that it wouldn't take longer than an hour.

[Richard C.]

if you would describe what you want done, a few people might actually reply.

[barbecueskappy]

The modification is hopefully pretty simple: just an emulator with the Y button stuck on permanantly, Then when you actually press the Y button the program releases Y very briefly and goes back on again. I'd have to be able to toggle this option with a keyboard button, I'll also want the option to switch this affect onto the B button rather than Y if I ever wanted to. I'll want to know how much time you think it would take, and how much you'd want for it.

[Agozer]

I wish to ask the $1,000,000 question: Why?

[AspiringSquire]

This must be intended for doing speed-run movies (or at least could serve a very useful purpose for them). With the 'run' button constantly pressed, except when you choose to release it, that's one less thing that you would have to worry about when you're trying to get through a game as quickly as possible; it makes the task easier.

[Joe Camacho]

It's probably for a "shmups" style game or something.

[Guest]

why not just use bubble gum to hold down the button/s?

[barbecueskappy]

You hit it on the head, it's the run button, and while there are other games to try it on, the mario games are in fact the primary items of interest. I'm not interested in playing it as much as I am in observing it. You see I'm incredibly meticulous when it comes to gameplay design, and the more I learn about design the more I'm astounded at how perfectly balanced and brilliant so many elements of the Mario games are. To me, regarding the most important aspects of gameplay, it's the holy grail of gameplay design. All, that is, except for the fact that I'm convinced the B button thing was completely unnecessary from the beginning. But still I would rather see it for myself. I'm interested in seeing just how much it has impacted gameplay, if it actually adds to the experience or only subtracts. I could also see if new inexperienced players could be more involved faster and easier. The Jimmy-rigged controller just wouldn't cut it, it has to be all or nothing to be a genuine case study.

By the way, what the heck is "shmups?"

[kamaitachi]

By the way, what the heck is "shmups?"

shoot-em-ups

[Guest]

Ah yes Mario games were always of high standard,I can understand your obsessive compulsiveness about them.Though I beg to differ on not having Marios walk ability from the start,running through the game wouid have made it less pleasant.Thats one of the things that made Sonic the headgehog such"nervewrecking".

[user222]

I good idea would be to make the [fast foward] key toggle fast foward on and off, like SNES9x.

[grinvader]

I good idea would be to make the [fast foward] key toggle fast foward on and off, like SNES9x.

Maybe you should open your eyes.
Or maybe 'Toggled FFwd/Slwdwn' isn't explicit enough for you ?

[Guest]

You're kewl...becausee you look like derth veder,ginvader.

[Nach]

You're kewl...becausee you look like derth veder,ginvader.

You have failed me for the last time, Captain.

[barbecueskappy]

Well as long as we're having a discussion about gameplay, let me explain what I know so far:

Fast all the time is bad, you overshoot subtle motions. I've seen this problem many times. But if you have weight, acceleration, like Mario has, it automatically gives you varying degrees of speed. The great thing about a weighty character is that the speed you go depends on how long you press the direction. Therefore you automatically adjust to a playing field of any porportion. You don't overshoot subtle motions (a problem I've seen in may old games), and long streches don't take too long to cover (a problem that exists in almost every modern game)

I believe Mario has the right balance with the B button, but new players are only able to do the good jumps once they learn to always hold it down.

Being able to run faster than you can see is bad, unless you have warning signs like on uniracers, or if there are only key moments that you do a super run like on Super Metroid and you can take a look at what you need to do before you do the run, or you have the same consistent trained and prompted response to anything that comes into view. At any rate, Mario isn't too fast to react. Even at full speed (which isn't your only speed even with B held) you have around .8 seconds to react, just enough time for a basic response (halt!). If you didn't have a weighty character (if it doesn't take time to slow down) you would only need .5 sec. to react like on Super Metroid. Sonic is an extremely weighty character that often gives .5 sec or less to react. My theory is that people were able to tolerate Sonic because you can almost have the same response to everything that comes into view (jump!) or people were simply patient enough to learn the courses, I haven't played it enough to confirm either theory, at any rate it's a clumsy game, feeling too slow (weight) and too fast (top speed) at the same time, although its unquestionable popularity gives it right to be observed more closely.

[Nightcrawler]

That was an interesting read for your opinion on the Mario game mechanics. Turns out I too have a fairly deep interest in the gameplay because I have been working on programming my own platformer and choose to use Mario Allstars as my gameplay/physics model.

It's amazing how much you pick up when you start to study the gameplay. I never realized how much went into it until I tried to recreate it. I spent tons of times tweaking initial jumping force, acceleration, gravity, walking/running velocities etc.. It really is amazing how balanced and fluid the Mario games are. I've now got something in the ballpark. However, it can stil be tweaked to more closely match Mario.

While in the process of creating my game, I tested out many of the theories you presented. I played around with faster speeds which caused frustratino because you can't see and react quick enough. I played around with a constant speed rather than variable with acceleration etc.

For a good gamplay experience, it is indeed essential to have a good balance. Variable speed for the player allows them to pick a speed they are comfortable progressing through the level with. Limits on jumping, acceleration, and gravity greatly effect the game and whether it is frustrating, too slow as to not give the player any sense of urgency etc..

I have alot of respect for the people who came up with such a great balance of everything.

[kieran_]

You're kewl...becausee you look like derth veder,ginvader.

You have failed me for the last time, Captain.

HA! Remember that video of Triumph the Insult dog, with the Star Wars nerds? The super-nerd, who was made from parts of lesser nerds spoke those very lines as his Vader impersonation. It is funny that you choose that line.

[Agozer]

You're kewl...becausee you look like derth veder,ginvader.

You have failed me for the last time, Captain.

HA! Remember that video of Triumph the Insult dog, with the Star Wars nerds? The super-nerd, who was made from parts of lesser nerds spoke those very lines as his Vader impersonation. It is funny that you choose that line.

The super-nerd is my anti-hero

[Guest]

See that's what I love about many 8 bit & 16-bit games...the people creating those games during those times were a well organised team who were very much different than what we see mostly today.They knew how to manifest their true talent in their work,maybe it was more simple back then cause the technology was simple.Today most developers focus on graphics and whatever gets the "product to sell".The craftsmanship has become corrupted.Like in every piece of artwork emotions are expressed and a moral to the story was seen in their work which was synchronised with very well made music which once again stirred deep emotions(most of the time).Rarely is this accomplished today.(btw I have beans for brains)

[kieran_]

You're kewl...becausee you look like derth veder,ginvader.

You have failed me for the last time, Captain.

HA! Remember that video of Triumph the Insult dog, with the Star Wars nerds? The super-nerd, who was made from parts of lesser nerds spoke those very lines as his Vader impersonation. It is funny that you choose that line.

The super-nerd is my anti-hero

Yeah. It was kinda sad (by sad, I do not mean pathetic, but the conventional meaning). He was probably harmless.

[barbecueskappy]

The biggest reason why modern games suffer in terms of gameplay is simple; 3-D poses a lot of complications and no game designer knows enough about gameplay to fix those problems. You have bland physical interactions with elements (such as run up to a guy and press attack until he's dead), shifting views, poor distance judgment, poor judgment of spatial relationships in general, constant uneventful stretches of travel, and the list goes on. The problems are partially disguised by the fact that while they don't feel good interactively, they may still look good visually or conceptually (Nobody would spend so much time running up to guys pressing attack until they're dead if their character didn't do all those cool moves)

The problem with designers is once they learn what works, they use it, or in other words, they let a formula dictate what they do.

The funny thing is, after analyzing something like Mario Bros. to death, I'll completely disregard its formula and do something completely different. I think the key to being a good artist is not to focus on what works but to focus on why it works. You focus on good principles then look at those principles as tools to get what you want rather than guidelines to manufacture a good product.

Your knowledge is a skeleton you build on. The problem with almost all modern game designers is that they use almost a whole existing body as their knowledge base instead of really understanding the skeleton at the bottom, and therefore not only is their potential for originality and innovation severely crippled because they leave so little room for exploration, but when there is substantial room for improvement on the skeletal level they don't know about it.

Now some types of games work more naturally with 3-D; platformers in today's common format isn't one of them. Unfortunately the best framework for "what works" in 3-D games has been Mario 64, and that's why there's so much trash out there. Mario 64 was good enough to last the duration of playing it once or twice through, but it doesn't have enough juice to keep me coming back to it year after year, especially when it's reincarnated game after game.

Fun gameplay is something more than good play control. You can have technically flawless play control and still have a boring game, but even technically flawed games can be a lot of fun to play.

[Johan_H]

(btw I have beans for brains)

Why would you add that yourself?

[Nightcrawler]

The problem with designers is once they learn what works, they use it, or in other words, they let a formula dictate what they do.

The funny thing is, after analyzing something like Mario Bros. to death, I'll completely disregard its formula and do something completely different. I think the key to being a good artist is not to focus on what works but to focus on why it works. You focus on good principles then look at those principles as tools to get what you want rather than guidelines to manufacture a good product.

Well said. I agree with this completely. That about sums it up.

[Guest]

(btw I have beans for brains)

Why would you add that yourself?

arrrhhhh you've noticed!!,good show you have an eagle's eye,I didn't think anyone would notice.

[mess cleaned - grin]

[kieran_]

You really messed that one up, controlerforce