Super metroid run speed?

fbb · Post by **fbb** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:25 pm

what do you mean?

I managed to beat metroid on NES TWICE.

well
lets say i had no patience with the game's total disorientation
as well as the time that takes to replenish your 5 life bars (THIS is hell)
and missiles, since the enemies kill you easily.

Not to mention that endless password screen that gave me headache.

i like difficult games
but not THAT difficult

creaothceann · Post by **creaothceann** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:01 pm

You're supposed to draw your own map.

Just as with Zelda.

Post by **odditude** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:12 pm

fbb wrote:
what do you mean?

I managed to beat metroid on NES TWICE.
well
lets say i had no patience with the game's total disorientation
as well as the time that takes to replenish your 5 life bars (THIS is hell)
and missiles, since the enemies kill you easily.

Not to mention that endless password screen that gave me headache.

i like difficult games
but not THAT difficult

6 energy tanks, not 5. and the quick way to refill them is to get one of the extra 2 (there are 8 total). hell, they even put an energy tank IN kraid's room, and one right behind ridley's.

besides that, there are tons of enemies that can drop +20 energy balls. rios, wavers, sidehoppers, gerudas, dessgeegas, multiviolas... the dragons do, too, but it's more annoying to grab their drops.

as for getting lost, m1 has a decent bit of visual differentiation between areas. now m2 - that's a game you can validly bitch about getting totally lost in. especially since the map overlaps in areas without connecting... it adds to the whole "i'm not just going through a big 2d plane" effect, but damn it can confuse you if you're working off your internal compass

ZH/Franky · Post by **ZH/Franky** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:33 pm

Dudes, if you want a difficult game on the NES, just play Silver Surfer, Contra, Ninja Gaiden 1/2/3, or Megaman 2.

fbb · Post by **fbb** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:52 pm

hmm
will give metroid 1 another chance soon

but just because my passion for the series is greater than my frustration felling

(better take a lot of paper)

I.S.T. · Post by **I.S.T.** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:53 pm

I dare say you just did the equivalent of telling a bunch of physicists that E=MC2.

Post by **odditude** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:44 pm

quick and dirty m1, ignoring unnecessary shit:
left to maru mari. right to vert corridor. up to first right. right to vert. down to bottom, right to missile, then backtrack to blue (left to vert, up to door on left, left). up to first left. left to long beam. backtrack to gold (right to vert, down to first right, right to vert). right through long, short, long, short, long (1st e tank). up vert to first left, left to bomb. right back to vert, down, left through long. short room, bomb through floor (near left side), down, left to ice beam. back up to short (bomb jump off fake lava block under hole), left to vert, up to top. right through long green to short green.

trick time: as soon as you have control, run right and shoot up through the only column that doesn't have crap in it. the waver will fly up into the hole. freeze it at its vertex and jump in after it, the floor will close after you. let it out and up, freeze it to use as a stepstool to go left to varia.

backtrack to short green. right to gold vert, (e tank and other stuff on way). down to bottom. left to gold vert, down to bottom, right to elevator (norfair).

down and then right to vert. down to bottom, bomb floor on right. down to first left. left to high jump. bomb floor before pedestal, left to short green. up through ceiling, left to screw attack. backtrack to purple vert (right to green, down one, right). down to left. left to vert, down to right, right to elevator (ridley's hideout).

down to left. fuck things up with screw attack. in long green, either freeze something to get over tall metal pole or bomb floor for passage under. left to silver room. jump over two-block-wide invisible hole in floor located two and three blocks to right of e-tank. grab e-tank, drop through invisible hole. go right to vert, try to bomb jump to right door for missle. either way, fall down, left to ridley (freeze his shots and missile him to death), left to e-tank (lots of fake lava here, no threat). right all the way to end, up vert to top, left to elevator (norfair).

left to vert, up to top, right to vert, up to top, shoot through ceiling (right side), up to second left, left to elevator (brinstar).

left to vert, up to left, left to blue vert, down to bottom, left to room with breakable stuff, down to bottom, right to elevator (kraid's hideout).

down to first right, grab missle and go back. down to next right, grab e-tank and go back. up and left through past missile. down (through fake lava). right to second short blue. bomb through floor (left side). right through long green (screw attack kills fake kraid in one hit) to short green. bomb center of floor, drop down. kill geegas from floor for energy and missiles if low. left to kraid. freeze center horn after he shoots it, then kamikaze run him and pump him full of missles. he'll die long before you do. e-tank in this room, right side below pedestal. open the block, get back on the pedestal, then bomb jump from the pedestal over the ledge into the e-tank nook. right to annoying vert, get used to falling, up to top. left to vert, down to bottom. left to vert, up to top, right to vert, up to elevator (brinstar).

left to vert, up to top, right. before low overhang you need to roll over, open e-tank in ceiling (two to left), freeze a skree and zoomer, jump and grab. right to vert, up to top, left to elevator (tourian).

be patient here, proceed carefully (move a few steps or drop a single platform at a time). green metroids are FAST. glowy ones are slow. freeze and 5 missiles to kill. they drop +30 energy or missiles. rinkas do NOT drop anything, don't try farming them. can't get lost here, only one way to go. last door is blue; when you get there, make sure health is high and missiles > 160 to be safe (farm metroids if necessary). left to end.

constant missile stream required to kill zeebetites. if you lay off, they'll regenerate. freeze rinkas, don't kill them - only 3 can be on screen at once, if they're frozen, more can't come. mother brain weak spot is easily hit from standing in last zeebetite hole. one missle to break glass, a shitload more to kill it. touching the glass is a bad idea; if you fall, be careful when jumping onto the pedestal to get back up. left to vert, up carefully (stick to right side) to elevator (victory).

edit: fixed wrong way to ice beam (had originally pointed to the evil trap)

Post by **grinvader** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:51 pm

Gil_Hamilton wrote:
grinvader wrote:Even if Gil disagrees. It does.
Like what?

The tapping on specific frames to generate low-speed speed booster or letting off for specific frames to generate high-speed no-boost are the only tricks I know, and they're exploiting faulty game logic.

It's not faulty game logic if the only way for that to be possible is that it was intended by the coders. It would have been way, way easier code-wise to make the speedboost counter reset as soon as you stop holding run even one frame.
And that ONE intended bit causes several intended sequence breaks. Also it gives you more control over your character in a very simple way, and "hold a direction like a zombie to move" stuff is plain silly.

Opinions, yadda yadda. Not like you have to worry about it, anyway. OR DO YOU...

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:27 am

grinvader wrote:
Gil_Hamilton wrote:
grinvader wrote:Even if Gil disagrees. It does.
Like what?

The tapping on specific frames to generate low-speed speed booster or letting off for specific frames to generate high-speed no-boost are the only tricks I know, and they're exploiting faulty game logic.
It's not faulty game logic if the only way for that to be possible is that it was intended by the coders. It would have been way, way easier code-wise to make the speedboost counter reset as soon as you stop holding run even one frame.

That requires you to check speed booster status at every frame.
The booster check only occurs at the times it should be incremented, because that's when it makes sense to check it, and someone neglected to add an absolute cancel routine(an easy oversight if the Speed Booster concept was added AFTER Samus' movement routines were laid out).

That's like saying that it was INTENDED by Capcom that you can enter the ceiling in Megaman 2 because bounds-checking on Item 1 is screwed up.

Or, alternatively, the game logic is just screwy as hell.
It's not like this is the same franchise where entire areas are set to the wrong default palette, causing widespread visual glitches when you drop down a vertical room.

And that ONE intended bit causes several intended sequence breaks. Also it gives you more control over your character in a very simple way, and "hold a direction like a zombie to move" stuff is plain silly.

I dispute the assertion that it's an intentional glitch, as well as the sequence-breaks it unlocks being intentional.
Particularly in light of glitches scattered about the game, ESPECIALLY glitches regarding speed booster usage. The Maridia boss shinespark kill being an obvious and popular one, though there's places where a shinespark will flat-out crash the game.

I furthermore assert that holding a direction while tapping dash at irregular intervals isn't a great revolution in gameplay, and observe that MOST Metroid games are designed to encourage you to spend a lot of time NOT running in a straight line.

Opinions, yadda yadda. Not like you have to worry about it, anyway. OR DO YOU...

Oh shit! He's identified my obsessive nature!

Bent · Post by **Bent** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:02 pm

odditude wrote:...
i can STILL beat metroid on cart in under an hour. didn't you kids learn to play a game until it's practically instinct?

the metroids themselves are no threat in SM, which was a major disappointment to me. the beasties in the original game used to generate palpable FEAR, because you knew if you missed an icebeam shot on one of the quick ones you could have a serious problem. ditto in m2 and zm (on hard).

For me, that game was Metroid II. I never had the original until years later. Who needs a map?

fbb · Post by **fbb** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:33 pm

For me, that game was Metroid II. I never had the original until years later. Who needs a map?

Me

Post by **odditude** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 4:48 pm

fbb wrote:
For me, that game was Metroid II. I never had the original until years later. Who needs a map?
Me

try my mini-walkthrough, i'm curious if it actually needs any more detail or if it's good as-is

fbb · Post by **fbb** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:34 pm

try my mini-walkthrough, i'm curious if it actually needs any more detail or if it's good as-is

i felt dirty just for reading the first line.

but will give it a try

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:50 am

Metroid 2 is actually an interesting game.

It's almost as linear as Fusion, but it doesn't beat you in the face with the clue bat all the time.
You have a bunch of small pockets of non-linearity, and they're all connected to the Lava Pit of Destiny that leads you inexorably closer to your final showdown with The Queen at every turn.

And of course, there's the original Metroid 1 false option lying there too.

Right from the start you're presented with the eternal right or left choice. And just like the original game, the instinctive gamer's choice of right is a dead end until after you've gone left.

Probably the first example of "nudging" in the franchise.

Super Metroid doesn't have this original false option, but it rapidly generates a wild amount of variability, even without the Getter Shinespark and Ninja Gaiden walljump(I WISH it worked like the Ninja Gaiden walljump, anyways...).

Post by **grinvader** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:28 pm

You can try to head right from your ship. I climbed over the big thing the first time, before going left and down, trying every door on the way, and then blue brinstar, where the "hey wow, it looks like the first one... wait fuck, it is"

Because seriously, the escaping shaft and old mobrain room got a hell of a facelift compared to the NES version, and the starting point is the first major lookalike.

Post by **odditude** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:50 pm

half of me wishes there was a(n official) zm-style remake of m2... the other half is terrified they'd make it a hand-holding walk in the park.

fbb · Post by **fbb** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:13 pm

odditude wrote:half of me wishes there was a(n official) zm-style remake of m2... the other half is terrified they'd make it a hand-holding walk in the park.

speaking of which
anybody know how are those metroid 2 remake projects going?

Gil_Hamilton · Post by **Gil_Hamilton** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 1:23 am

grinvader wrote:You can try to head right from your ship. I climbed over the big thing the first time, before going left and down, trying every door on the way, and then blue brinstar, where the "hey wow, it looks like the first one... wait fuck, it is"

Because seriously, the escaping shaft and old mobrain room got a hell of a facelift compared to the NES version, and the starting point is the first major lookalike.

I recognized them.
I even had enough spare brainpower to nitpick the escape shaft for being a totally different map and wonder what happened to the REST of Tourian.

...

It actually woulda been neat to climb back through the old Tourian... Until you got bored.

Some cave-in features woulda been nice, though. Make it LOOK like it collapsed into the Brinstar below it.

DancemasterGlenn · Post by **DancemasterGlenn** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:39 pm

fbb wrote:speaking of which
anybody know how are those metroid 2 remake projects going?

http://metroid2remake.blogspot.com/
http://www.metroidsr388.com/

The former just put out a new demo, which I haven't had a chance to play yet. I'm excited about them, let's hope the magic is properly captured.

EDIT: demo doesn't work in wine, unfortunately. I'm going to watch the trailer on the site, but someone definitely play this and see how it controls...

fbb · Post by **fbb** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:23 am

DancemasterGlenn wrote:
fbb wrote:speaking of which
anybody know how are those metroid 2 remake projects going?
http://metroid2remake.blogspot.com/
http://www.metroidsr388.com/

The former just put out a new demo, which I haven't had a chance to play yet. I'm excited about them, let's hope the magic is properly captured.

EDIT: demo doesn't work in wine, unfortunately. I'm going to watch the trailer on the site, but someone definitely play this and see how it controls...

the first didnt play well on mine

i need that SR388
NOW
XD